User talk:Trevormark
Welcome Hi, welcome to Champions Online Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Bronze King page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Heaven's Agent (Talk) 07:51, December 7, 2009 Uploading Images When you upload a new image, what is the best way to do it? Do you just take a screenshot and crop it, like I've been doing, or is there a better way? If there is a better way, expect the Rogues Gallery Perks section to be completed fairly quickly! --Trevormark 04:35, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :I just take a screenshot with the interface disabled and crop it to what I need. For Perks, I usually open them in Photoshop and eliminate everything but the perk image itself by hand. It's a little more time intensive, but allows me to utilize a transparent background. Ultimately, though, use the method you're most comfortable with and allows you to produce your best results. -- 04:46, January 13, 2010 (UTC) Ah... so the best method is just to continue doing what I planned on doing anyway. Well, thanks! --Trevormark 04:50, January 13, 2010 (UTC) Editor Not Loading Is it just the Rogues Gallery Perks page that you're having troubles with the editor, or are there other specific pages you've encountered this on. I'm preparing to send a bug report to Wikia staff, and want to have as much specific information as I can for them. -- Heaven's Agent 05:15, January 13, 2010 (UTC) Acrually, oddly enough, it seems to be everything EXCEPT for the talk pages. I can't even edit my user page, but I can edit my own and other peoples' talk pages. Also, some pages are marked with a 404 - Not Found, in additon to not loading, though what pages have this seems to be random. --Trevormark 05:25, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :I've received the 404 error on a few pages as well, though primarily on Killeropus's images. I'll get the report sent off immediately; I hope someone's in the offices this late. -- Heaven's Agent 05:31, January 13, 2010 (UTC) Shadow Destroyer I noticed you changed my edit to the disambiguation page Shadow Destroyer. Shadow Destroyer is actually the James Harmon IV, a.k.a. Defender, of another dimension, not its Doctor Destroyer. It's revealed in Book of the Destroyer, published in 2008. -- Heaven's Agent 22:17, January 14, 2010 (UTC) :Huh... really? Weird. I never read that, or any other books on the Champions Universe, and haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in the game (and I read as much lore as I can find. the Karkaradons mentioned Harmon in one piece of lore, but didn't elaborate). However, from some of the articles mentioning stuff from before Champions Online, I notice that there has been a large amount of retconning, so it's kind of hard to tell. --Trevormark 04:23, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Hehe, there's some nice tidbits out there if you have the sources available to you. It's one of the reasons why I want to focus on both CO and the Champions Universe on this project. Currently they're rather separate from one another; the Champions Universe has such a full and long history that there's really no way for the MMO to cover it all. Likewise, though they intend to cover events that occur in CO, it would prove extremely difficult for HERO Games if they tried to document everything that occurs in the MMO as part of the tabletop RPG. I think there's a lot that we can offer the community if we can successfully combine the two into a single whole. -- Heaven's Agent 04:37, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I decided it would be best to compromise, saying that his identity is debated, and then then the reason for the debate. After all, saying just one or the other could probably lead to a bit of confusion. --Trevormark 05:06, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::That's the thing; Shadow Destroyer was created by HERO Games specifically as a villain for CO. What's more, I'm unaware of anything in CO that states he's an alternate reality's Doctor Destroyer. It's also documented on the CO official forums that he is in fact an alternate James Harmon. ::::Ultimately, though, it's a matter of what resources we have. The most recent source that definitively identifies him tags him as James Harmon. That's what we need to run with. If a new source or mission in CO positively identifies him as an alternate Destroyer, we can alter the article to reflect that. But until a new source becomes available, we have to document what's canonical rather than what's speculation. -- Heaven's Agent 05:18, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Alright, that's a good point. I'll just leave that page as it is from now on. I would however like to point out that many npcs in Champions Online mistake Shadow Destroyer for the original Dr. Destroyer, and that Shadow Destroyer also seems to frequently pretend to be the original Destroyer (that's why Gigaton, Rakshasa, the Destroids, and all of Dr. Destroyer's other minions work for him). However, as you said nothing POSITIVELY states that he is an alternate Dr. Destroyer. --Trevormark 05:27, January 15, 2010 (UTC) (Resetting Indent) Actually, CO doesn't support the idea that Destroyer's lieutenants and servants are following Shadow Destroyer. It's an implication the game allows players to make on their own quite often, but its never stated. Further, Book of the Destroyer notes that Shadow Destroyer is actively searching for Doctor Destroyer's whereabouts so that Shadow can kill him, providing strong indication that Doctor Destroyer was not actually killed in the Battle of Detroit, and may simply be in hiding somewhere and actively providing orders to his minions. I wouldn't be surprised if Doctor Destroyer's return ends up being part of a holiday event or game expansion, complete with a fight between him, Shadow Destroyer, and Defender. In any event, I just really need to get the articles written for both Destroyers. They do create a fair amount of confusion, and this is as good a place as any to offer the information to clear that confusion up. -- Heaven's Agent 05:45, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :Wow... Doctor Destroyer's alive too? But explain why the Black Talon Pilot, once you meet him in the Stronghold, was following Shadow Destroyer instead of the real Destroyer. In fact, he even mentioned that Rakshasa and Gigaton were beginning to distrust him. --Trevormark 20:48, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm afraid some of that's simply going to have to wait to be explained; the developers seem to have set the groundwork for several significant events planned for the game's future, that for the moment they only hint at. The most likely answer for the Black Talon pilot following Shadow Destroyer is that he's suffering from the same confusion that the majority of the player base experiences regarding the two Destroyers. It's also possible that Doctor Destroyer is already active again, masquerading as Shadow Destroyer to remain undetected. In any case, I imagine everything will be explained in time. Assuredly to be replaced by new mysteries, of course, but answered nonetheless. -- Heaven's Agent 20:58, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :::Alright, I believe I've completed the article on Shadow Destroyer. I removed the note you placed in the infobox about his identity being James Harmon of another dimension; we wouldn't normally provide such distinction in the case of two NPCs from Champions Earth that just happen to have the same name, so I don't think we should here. Instead, I made sure both James Harmon and James Harmon IV lead to the article on Defender, and added a line at the top leading to James Harmon IV (disambiguation) stating that other uses of the name do exist. Let me know if you think I left something out. :::Also, I've a tidbit I thought you might be interested in, but I didn't want to include in the article as it's somewhat vague. The source states that the plot Shadow Destroyer came to assist DEMON in completing will be finished within four years of his arrival on Champions Earth. I'm unable to find a date as to when he arrived, but HERO Games has traditionally used a timeline synchronized with real time for the purposes of the chronology in the Champions Universe. Book of the Destroyer states Shadow Destroyer to already have arrived, and was published in 2008. In addition, it was written with CO in mind, so it's very likely we'll see a massive Shadow Destroyer/DEMON themed plot by the end of 2012. -- Heaven's Agent 23:42, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yeah, I guess James Harmon IV needed a disambiguation page. Man, when I started making small articles on Shadow Destroyer, I never thought it would turn into such a big argument. As for the Shadow Destroyer/DEMON plot, my guess is that the date is intentional, due to that whole thing about how everyone seems to think the world will end in 2012... --Trevormark 23:52, January 15, 2010 (UTC) (Resetting Indent) Don't worry about it; I'd call it a discussion, rather than an argument. And such discussions are an indicator of a healthy wiki; contributors should be somewhat passionate about the subject matter of a project. It's only natural that differences would arise, but as long as they're resolved in a civil matter it's all for the better. I'd have to agree with you about the possibility 2012 date being intentional. I could easily see it being a massive winter event, possibly something Cryptic's working on already. -- Heaven's Agent 00:22, January 16, 2010 (UTC) A Question of Colons Something I've started wondering about is colon usage. I've noticed yourself and a few other contributors adding what appears, to me at least, to be excessive colons to articles. I'm wondering if this is a matter of different resolutions, displays, browsers, depicting the articles differently. With my setup, they end up distorting the articles and breaking text strings. Maybe it's just my end of things; the fact that multiple contributors are using them in such a manner makes me think this might be the case. Is there a particular reason for adding them as you have been, or is it simply aesthetic taste? -- Heaven's Agent 05:11, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :I don't THINK I've been using many colons... if I have, could you post an example? If I haven't, it's probably due to some wiki text changing thing, that doesn't affect you for some weird reason. For example, I indented this paragraph by putting a colon at the beginning of it. --Trevormark 05:17, January 15, 2010 (UTC) ::The indents seems to be displaying correctly. Here are some examples from today; your edits haven't produced as wide a range of display results on my system as those of others, but it is noticeable. The top portion is from Dr. Timothy Blank; as you can see the usage of three colons within the mission table pushed the text to the right so far that it had to wrap to a new line. The bottom is from Redstone; both lines are preceded by only a single colon, but they indent the lines out of alignment of each other and the line break between them. -- Heaven's Agent 05:34, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :::Ahh, I think I see the problem. It's those stupid new "improvements" made to the editor. Hopefully they'll change it back to the old, less annoying, bug-free version if we complain enough... (I've had to deal with quite a few other annoying problems as well) ::::That explains why my edits haven't been resulting in similar display errors; I disabled the rich text editor on my account over a year ago now. -- Heaven's Agent 08:16, January 15, 2010 (UTC) Re: Merging Articles Not a problem, though in this case it proved easier to just turn one into a redirect to the other. This way you only have a single article to update, and both the singular and plural forms link to it. -- Heaven's Agent 07:11, January 17, 2010 (UTC) Fight Club Mobs Did the Mechanic and Frank Zaretti finally get added to villain groups? When I ran Fight Club both were independent super villains, despite having the appearance of members of the Cobra Lords and the New Purples. -- Heaven's Agent 07:17, January 17, 2010 (UTC) :Actually, I'm not sure... I don't think so. Though it IS obvious that Zaretti is a New Purple, Mechanic is a Cobra Lord, and Black Mace is a Black Ace (that one's extra obvious), I don't think they actually have the markers saying their group. I'll leave it to you to determine whether or not that should stay there. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to add Grond to the list of Irradiate enemies, because I did see him with an Irradiate marker. --Trevormark 09:02, January 17, 2010 (UTC) ::I figured Grond probably was included as an Irradiate, but I just hadn't taken the time to check. ::I know, for example, that Zaretti isn't supposed to be a New Purple; he's an independent crime boss, rather than a lackey of Poe. Think mob rather than street gang. Black Mace is supposed to be an independent villain as well, and doesn't bear any distinguishing marks that would indicate he belongs to the Black Aces. ::Ultimately, what I've been going by is if a villain bears a group tag, they count as a member of that group for the purpose of earning Perks, and should be listed as such here. That's why I included Tachyon, a clearly independent super villain, as a member of the New Purple Gang. That said, I've never been completely pleased with that method; if you have a better idea, feel free to let me know. -- Heaven's Agent 18:02, January 17, 2010 (UTC) :::I say keep the same method, but make exceptions for things that are rather obvious, even if they don't actually count towards the perks. For example, the Fight Club bosses would be considered a member of their gang, and the irradiated PRIMUS mutants would be counted as both Irradiates and PRIMUS at the same time. But of course this is a matter of preference. --Trevormark 20:25, January 17, 2010 (UTC) ::::Sounds good to me. And if Cryptic moves things around later on, it's always just as easy to alter the articles to reflect the changes. -- Heaven's Agent 21:26, January 17, 2010 (UTC) Action Figures and Images Greets again. Just dropping by to give a heads up to a few things. One of which there's absolutely no way for you to be aware of unless you've been around here for several months, so don't worry about it; the image Headache.png was actually taken without permission from another wiki project before I became Admin here. While in general such action is legal, it's generally frowned upon and is something I've been taking steps to eliminate when encountered. That's why I haven't been using it in articles; it, and in general any perk image uploaded by former Admin Otiluke, needs to be replaced as we progress through our edits. Second is the rarity of Action Figures. They don't follow the standard rarity of other items in the game. They only come in three rarities: Common, Uncommon, and Rare, each reflecting the nature of an AF's availability and the difficulty of acquiring it. The rarity of an AF can be seen on the character sheet, included as part of the tooltip that appears when you mouse over the AF's image. -- Heaven's Agent 20:22, January 24, 2010 (UTC) :Wow, I had no idea about the image stealing. I'll see if I can post my own pictures to replace those soon. As for the action figures, I was going by the color of the text (white=low, yellow=common, green=uncommon, blue=rare, purple=unique), but that is a matter of preference, so I'll leave labeling action figure rarity to you. --Trevormark 22:06, January 24, 2010 (UTC) ::Text color would work if all Action Figures took the form of items that needed activated before they're added to a character account, but not all of them do; the majority of the Winter Event AFs, for instance, were automatically applied to a player's account when the relevant mission was completed. ::The only rarity system I can find that exists for all AFs is the standard Common-Uncommon-Rare. But if you come up with something else by all means let me know. -- Heaven's Agent 22:47, January 24, 2010 (UTC) :::I say do the same thing as we did with deciding which enemies belong to which faction. Go by text color for the things that appear in your inventory, and keep the current system for things that don't. --Trevormark 08:08, January 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::Except the rarity color isn't for the action figure, it's for the item that unlocks the action figure. They're two separate things. And whatever we run with, we need to be able to use it for all AFs; if we can't use rarity color for all of them, we shouldn't use it for any. -- Heaven's Agent 17:06, January 25, 2010 (UTC) (reseting indent)Alright then, we should show both the action figure rarity and the rarity of the item that gives it on the same page (only for the action figures that have an item, of course). --Trevormark 22:09, January 25, 2010 (UTC) :That could work; Template:Item should be ready to go for such a use. -- Heaven's Agent 00:25, January 26, 2010 (UTC) :EDIT: Aren't the items usually named something different than the AF itself, though? -- Heaven's Agent 00:27, January 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm not sure. Maybe just create a separate article for the items, and post links in both articles linking them together? Or just ignore the different names? :::The more I think about, the more I believe two articles would be best. In most cases folks would only be concerned with the Action Figure itself, and most of the links in the project would lead there. But some would be interested in thew items as well, and as such they should be included in the wiki. On the same token, as they are unique items, they deserve their own article. -- Heaven's Agent 04:40, January 26, 2010 (UTC)